How do people progress? By learning. Learning from your own mistakes and observing others mistakes and learning from that. The US of A is in a position to do just that. However, you have to be willing to learn and willing to ask the questions that will prevent mistakes from being made here.

I came across the article below this morning. Some people, like the Farleys, will look at it and go “SEE! THAT’s why we can’t legalize prostitution here and why it won’t solve diddly squat!”

Others, like myself, look at the same article and go “Hmmm, I see. How can we prevent that scenario from happening here should we adopt a similar policy?”

Here is the article (Sex slavery continues in Europe) and here are some snippets:

There are several scholars and organizations in the United States who have advocated the legalization of prostitution in order to remove the crime from the sex trade.If one removes the profit motive for an illegal activity, organized crime will always subvert the system in order to maintain their profits.

The recent arrest of pimps and “window brothel” owners in Amsterdam’s red light district revealed the continuation of organized crime gangs involved in the sex trade.

The rationale for the law, at least in past, was legalizing prostitution would reduce the presence of organized crime in the sex trade. Brothels were licensed, opened for health inspections, and both owners and prostitutes would be taxed as would any other legitimate business and worker.

Organized crime gangs did what organized crime gangs usually do: adjust their operation and search for loopholes in order to achieve illegal profits from criminal activity.

For example, the Brothel Law stipulates only those able to legally work in the Netherlands could seek employment in the sex trade.

This opened the door to “exotic” women and those exotic women were usually illegal aliens being forces at times into participating in the sex trade.  These illegal alien women — some still in their early teens — are from outside the European Union or from those countries in the EU not eligible to work in the Netherlands.

What I would like to know is why? Why are clients/customers/consumers choosing to go with illegal hookers as opposed to the legal ones? Are they cheaper? Do you just not know if they are legally allowed to work or not? Are there no standards/regulations/laws for the patronizing of an illegal prostitute? And how can we avoid this in the States if such a thing ever comes to pass?

Instead of climbing up on a soapbox and shouting “SEE! I TOLD you so!”, hunker your ass down in a think tank and figure out how to protect workers and consumers of the sex trade and figure out ways to avoid the trafficking aspect.

Do I have ideas? You know I do. If men have no repercussions no matter which prostitute they pick, they aren’t going to care. If a man has an option of freely being allowed to see a legal prostitute but will be fined, jailed, whatever by seeing an illegal prostitute – perhaps he will make the right choice. We all hear of ‘end demand’ programs, most of which don’t work because you don’t give anyone options. It’s my way or the highway.

Let the NGO maintain a list of (remember I’m against real life info here) certified/registered/legal prostitutes and issue ASWA cards. Yes I know, cards can be faked. That’s why you have an online database that you can use to verify the ID#s or whatever. Men can choose an ASWA member legally and avoid the illegal hookers. Make it known that there are penalties for being caught with an ‘illegal’ hooker and dumbass, you should have gone to the ASWA huh?

Would it work? Would it cause more problems than it would be worth? I don’t know. I can’t think of everything which is why there should be a board of AVP’s overseeing this kind of thing. Through collaboration we can come up with answers to these questions and more importantly – solutions.


Filed under Opinions, Solutions

11 responses to “Learning

  1. Clearly it’s because the new ladies are charging drastically lower rates. Why do clients take the risk of calling the 80 dollar mess instead of me? Cause it’s a fraction of the cost! Worse yet, when she rips him off for the 80 bucks then he calls me back and asks for a discount. I truly marvel at people’s stupidity.

    Regardless, I like your proposed method of action!

  2. The two main reasons there is still illegal prostitution in Amsterdam:
    1) Because prostitution is legalized there, not decriminalized; and
    2) Because it’s still illegal right next door in Norway and Sweden, semi-illegal right next door in France and the UK and totally illegal “down the block” in Eastern Europe.

    As long as female sexuality is constrained to a separate category ANYWHERE there will be an illegal sex trade. Period.

    • bdevereaux

      I suppose that should the decriminalization of prostitution occur in Canada as it has been proposed, I shall endeavor to illegally traffick myself so that I can work freely. Would trafficking myself be a crime? Are the number of women who choose to be trafficked themselves included in the statistics of “illegal sex trafficking”?

  3. I agree the reason clients choose them is because pimps charge lower prices. They don’t have any incentive to lower volume.

    I don’t know about the Netherlands, but here most pimped girls are able to present a credible front to the casual observer who doesn’t know how to identify pimp signs. So I give new clients a pass there.

    But for trafficked women, like in AMPs, clients gotta know that those women are at least coerced if not downright enslaved. But again, it’s hard to beat AMP prices.

    • bdevereaux

      So is there a solution?

      • I like your solution. I think we need a private registry like the porn industry has. That’s an industry we should be looking to, because of the way they’ve legitimized themselves through self-policing.

        I think even that model only works for “proving yourself” to law enforcement. It would be very hard to create a model that clients could use to reliably verify a prostitute’s age, citizenship, etc. without either a) him learning her name, or b) her being forced to post a recognizable face photo on the internet, which some escorts will never want to do even if we have decriminalization.

        The main barrier I see to this sort of registry being made, is getting escorts to trust an organization enough to supply their identifying information. Then again, there are plenty of people willing to use a credit card to pay for Eros or Backpage, so maybe it wouldn’t be a problem.

      • bdevereaux

        THATS what I’m talking about AK! Put on that thinking cap and lets hunker down in our little think tank!

        I always go back to my medical science license as an example. Simply because I’m familiar with the system. I have to maintain a current registration yearly in order to keep my license and work in the medical industry, therefore I use it as my means of comparison.

        I am issued a card with an ID #. When seeking employment I have to show that card. The ID # that is on the card can (and usually is) looked up on that organizations website. When the number is entered, my status information pops up that says whether the ID is current and I’m allowed to work, whether it is revoked or expired or compromised (as in stolen or on CE probation). In hookerdom, the ID can be looked up to see if it is valid – another step to prevent fraud and fake IDs. As my medical licensure goes, it is with a non government agency (American Association of X X) and so too should be a prostitution organization. It has to be self policed in order to be useful – too much mistrust of government.

        As far as getting prostitutes to use this kind of service, I don’t know for sure. It shouldn’t require face photos, it shouldn’t have real life information in a searchable database else we come up with what happened with the porn industry (fucking hackers). Have the home office 1-800 number have it all on paper in a secure safe so people would have to call to verify? Perhaps. More employment opportunities for phone operators.

        The NGO would HAVE to be run by “known” ladies of the industry, like those who are already associated with places like SWOP and Desiree Alliance. Or independent current and/or ex-hookers like Maggie, Kelly, or myself in order to have some type of trust in the agency to begin with. In order to encourage ladies to join (it shouldn’t be forced IMO) have fee’s to register BUT in turn use those fee’s for an opt-in health care program, a scholarship fund for those that eventually want to move on, and emergency fund. Have union type benefits.

        As for the clients, in an effort to encourage them to seek only this organizations members – I’d have to talk to them about it really to see what kind of incentives they would need, but maybe discounts. Lord I hate to say it but something like “coupons” (sorry ladies!). Or out of our funding offer a one night hotel stay at their next business trip locale.

        We do have the opportunity to be creative here and to bring the adult prostitution community together.

        And to the ladies, please now that this is not an attempt to regulate your profession and what you do/how you do it. I am attempting to satisfy concerns of the public by being pro-active in the prevention of underage and forced trafficking/prostitution. I think a unified front in the form of organization will show that those issues are a concern to us also and that we are attempting to do our part while still conducting a professional service.

        Dam I should have just made this it’s own post. Sorry about carrying on in a comment 🙂

  4. Guilty Pleasure

    This is almost the same thing as the prohibition of alcohol. Even though it almost put the mafia out of business (from the profits of illegal booze) once they legalized it, they still had their hands in the trade. I am also wondering, if these illegal (exotic) sex workers were underage. I have seen too many men in the hobby who are looking for a young girl (or one who looks like a teenager) and they patronize the spas / brothels here in the US who cater to them. It seems to me if Amsterdam wants to run the organized crime out of the sex trade there and stop the illegal sex trade biz, they need to require documentation, or signed contracts/forms with ID from each woman in the spas/brothels. Especially in these places, versus women who are independent of spas/brothels because there is more risk of women being forced into sex slavery through them. Maybe they need to do regular audits, or visit the brothels weekly, or with random checks to visit the young ladies and verify they are there willing? It would not surprise me if these girls came much cheaper than the legal brothels, or independent prostitutes, and I can see how men will go with it cheaper.

    I don’t know what the answer is, but I am sure if anyone wanted to find a way to stop this, they could. Organized crime is everywhere, they own real property, restaurants, legitimate businesses, and you would never know as a consumer that the restaurant, or the property you bought wasn’t actually owned or run by organized crime. I knew of a small title company here in Texas that was owned and run by a man who was a part of a well known biker gang (also known as 1 percenters in the States). His job was to push closings on the properties for them.

    My point is they take advantage of loopholes, and other means to make everything seem legit.

    • bdevereaux

      GP Darling!! Good to see ya luv!

      I agree, no matter what we do, how we do it some crime person asshole is going to try and keep their hands in the pie. Of course. They are not so easily going to let go of their money maker. At least we can TRY to lessen the impact that they have.

      As it is now say with alcohol (I wasn’t around during prohibition so I’m kinda just guessing as an example). When I couldn’t buy it legally, I can totally picture having to go into a dark alley and discreetly pass money to some dude that gives me an unlabeled bottle full of murky liquid that he says is alcohol. Now that it can be purchased legally, this same dude is going “psst, psst” to get me to buy his stuff but now I can say fuck you, I’m going to the corner store and buying alcohol in a well lit, safe place where I know the alcohol I’m buying is legit. I don’t care if I’m paying more for the store bought. I know it’s good, I know it’s not just brown water, and I’m not putting myself in danger by making an exchange in a dark alley from some guy who may have a knife or a gun.

      I just (as I consider myself a normal person) can not understand why someone would still buy old dudes alcohol in an alley when they can purchase it safely in a store. To me that would just be stupid. Same thing with prostitution, why buy pussy in the dark when you can just go down to the local brothel where chances are greater you won’t be mugged and you won’t catch some kind of disease. But that’s just the way I think. Ok, maybe I don’t have enough money for the expensive beer. The cooler has beer of all prices, I just may have to settle for Coors Lite instead of Shiner Bock. I may have to settle for one can instead of a six pack.

      It makes sense to me…

  5. cch

    I think there will always be an illegal aspect to the profession, but having a legal option would be nice for a large number of clients and providers, and LE would have a smaller population on which to focus.

    • bdevereaux

      Agree. If you were a guy looking to buy sex, which would YOU choose? Or would it make a difference? Would price affect your decision? Would you go for the cheap $80 ‘illegal’ ho on the street corner and risk your health, safety, and possible legal ramifications? Or would you choose a more expensive prostitute (say in the $150 to $250 range) knowing she was ‘legal’ with a greatly reduced chance of health risks, near guaranteed safety, and no legal risk? Also you would be assured that the ‘legal’ prostitute was of age and not coerced whereas there would be no such guarantee with the ‘illegal’ ho.

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